When you walked into your local Ford dealer in 1969 you likely walked out with one of their “Better Ideas from Ford” brochures. 1969 was a very different time from 2018 in many ways. This brochure represents a snap shot of the life in 1969. From the wild paisley prints, the vivid colors, dance moves and over all style this printed document says it all.
You can go through this booklet and design the options you had to have to be cool in 1969. It is also a reminder of how far off the youth target market the 1969 Ford Talladega was and why it is not yet a bigger hit in the collector car market place.
If more of these “Better Ideas from Ford” had made their way into the Talladega how do you imagine those cars would have turned out? Leave your comments below.
If you click on any image you will go to another page, click the image again and it will greatly enlarge for better details.
Richard,
Don’t forget the Talladega’s like the Spoiler II’s were what the factory called a “Package” or no option’s could be had from the factory….less what was on call out for package..Yes your choice of color Maroon, Pres blue, or White on the T’s and Dan Blue or Cale Red…on the II’s…Now granted a dealer could have installed options like in catalog….just not from Factory !
So you just got fenders made at Holman/Moody or Kar Kraft not in a Ford factory. Header panels, Rocker panels Kustom built from outside company’s ….Stock hoods bent a bit at both Lorain and Atlanta plant’s and Kustom built Kustom front bumpers from Dearborn Steel Tubing Home of the Thunder Bolts from 1964…Now these parts may have not been in a parts option catalog …thing is if you were into NASCAR back in the day 1969 these were just the options you wanted !!!!!!!!!
What you say is true. However, there were exceptions. Not every Spoiler II was identical. I know of two cars, one a Cale Spoiler II and one a Gurney Spoiler II, that were different from the factory than all the others. Both of these cars were built as “heater delete” cars. I own the Gurney and it is documented with a Marti Report and Special Marti Research Report. I have no information on the Cale car existence today.
Now, were there any Talladegas built as heater delete? Other, to date, unknown factory modifications?
Richard,
I have seen the story of your “Heater Delete” Spoiler II, Thing is a Delete is not an Option…Option’s were the way Dealership’s made more money Like on a Talladega if you were buying one new and you wanted an AM/FM radio installed the dealership had to install it for you because it was not offered on the Talladega or for that the Spoiler II’s from the factory…. Your build sheet would show Heater Delete so the line worker would know not to install the heater box….or it would show up on a Marti Report as part of the “Warranty Coverage ” as that is what Marti Reports are based on and not the build sheet. Recall the Build sheet…and not the Marti told the factory workers what or what not to put on each car or truck that came down the line….You should post your build sheet along with the story you have on this site about your Gurney.
Now as to Special Talladega’s with Modifications from the Factory or Heater Delete….As I recall you posted a story that there was a Talladega with Heater Delete as to Marti research…thing is No factory invoice I have seen has Heater Delete stated on it as a credit adjustment would show…nor have I ever seen a Talladega build sheet where it was noted “Heater Delete ” we are talking Production run cars now and not Cars like the Banjo T’s or say the Special Order Talladega built for Mr.Knudsen or Mr.France .
Thing is we have proved the Talladega’s were deleted of Hood pins and this shows on the build sheets yet they showed up on Marti reports ???
If we are going to tell the History of the Talladega’s and the Spoiler II’s it should be backed up with Factory Documentation and not hear say and we have seen how the Marti and Ford’s own 999 reports can be wrong look at your Mustang Talladega report !
I have been looking at a build sheet for a Torino/Fairlane Cobra that was built at Atlanta plant during the Talladega production run and it is kind of neat the changes that show up between the two…In thinking if Kevin Marti can do advanced research on Heater Delete Spoiler II’s why will he not punch in the special 4 digit code for the Spoiler II’s and show us where they were sent (Dealership’s) and how many were built He would have had to used that code to find the other Heater Delete Spoiler II ????
Rick, I guess it is a matter of interpretation regarding options. The typical “option” is one that cost more money. However, There are times when ordering a car the “radio delete” or “heater delete” boxes could be chosen to lighten weight or other reason. In my mind these are optional ways to build the car and as such they are “options”. There also were times when there were “no cost options” that aloud the buyer to substitute different items or different gear ratios etc. for the same price. Enough of that.
I have never went searching for the build sheet on our Spoiler II. It is an all original car and I don’t want to start taking things apart, better left untouched. I did talk with the original owner and have written confirmation that the car was delivered new as a heater delete and was not a Marti Report error as are the non-existent Talladega hood pins you refereed to.
As for Kevin Marti, I have contacted them in the past regarding information like you suggest. Their response was they do not do mass searches only for one car at a time and you have to provide the VIN. I was willing to pay to retrieve all VINs for Spoilers and was denied.
I guess you could could call it a “Matter of interpretation” and as you say in your reply “In my mind ………………such they are options”……So now just so it is understood if a Marti Report states a Spoiler II or Talladega is built with Radio or Heater Delete thing is that car now has a Radio or Heater is it still “An all Original Car ” ? I would say that as a matter of “Interpret ion” it could be an option because the owner of said car would have to buy a heater or radio and install it this would be a cost…and being the Talladega, Spoiler II “Package” would have given said car a AM radio and heater from the factory. Than again would it Really be an all Original car as from the factory or a Dealer or owner installed optioned car and not an all Original car from the Factory ? I feel this is important and look forward to your input as Marti Reports due not show what happened to a Car in this case a Spoiler II or Talladega until they were sold and Dealer information is filed for warranty work Case in point a friend has a car that was showed at the New York worlds Fair and sent from Ford to the fair than to a dealership and sold…Marti report does not show this. Thing is factory invoice shows this car to be Fair car.
I think we are carrying this a bit too far to the extreme. I do not presume to define the definition of what “an all Original Car” is or is not nor suggest that the Marti
Reports are the “Golden Proof” of a car’s correctness. It is also difficult to pick and choose what information is correct from any source. We know that Marti and Ford both have published information that is inaccurate at times. We know that some folks who “were there” be it at Holman and Moody, Kar Kraft, Ford Factory or Mercury Factory sometimes have inaccurate or selective memories. We also know that different comments from people who were there many times conflict with others’ comments. Like any other decision or conclusion we have to make, the final determination has to be based on good judgement and the weight of evidence available at the time.
As regarding Spoiler and Spoiler II cars, what is your opinion on the rear spoiler, decals, and steering wheel wrap? These items were not installed at the factory but shipped with the cars. These are all dealer installed items at the owner’s request or the dealer’s option. If the car was sold without these items or with these items not installed at the dealership would the car “not be original” if a subsequent owner installed one or all of them years later?
Your comments suggest that you question if my heater delete Spoiler II is “original” without proof from a build sheet since it does not have a heater. I can not imagine a new car owner requesting the dealer remove a heater prior to purchase. If he did and the dealership invoice showed that they removed it, would that make the car original? If the dealer installed a 428 CJ in a Spoiler II at the dealership with invoice, is it original? Would that show up on a Marti Report? Would it be under warranty? Since the Marti Report on our car states that it “is one of two Spoiler II cars that were heater delete”, the original owner says the car came as a heater delete and the car was delivered and sold new in Hawaii where many new cars do not have heaters, does not the evidence suggest that the car is “original” without a heater?
If not, then it seems the only way to confirm that any car can be documented as original is with the build sheet. If that is the case, what is the purpose of the Marti Reports that are so widely described as the “proof of a car’s correctness”? Can any car be documented as original withour a build sheet?
I do not think this is going to the Extreme! I think it is important for young people coming into the collector Muscle Car market to have a based on understanding of what is correct and not correct for a car..be it a Talladega, Spoiler II or 1963 Grand Sport Corvette.
As you know I use factory paper work from Ford, Holman/Moody and Kar Kraft that I obtained back in the late 70’s early 80’s and back than I talked to a lot of the people who were involved in the building of the T’s and 2’s…Plus I have viewed more than a few original cars also I was given a package of Glove Box inserts that show the special parts that make up the Spoiler II package when I worked at Lorain….I also have the cooling tests and many of the other tests that were run on the Spoiler II’s before they went into production….and many build sheets from II’s and T’s so I have a firm bases of what way a car was built at the factory….and my interest in sharing this info for free has been to get the correct info out to restorers, buyers, and just plain people who have a interest in these cars.
Now it has been pointed out to me by a hand full of people who have been T and II owners longer than I have been into sharing my info….that lot of NEW incorrect information is coming out and being posted on web sites or in news letters, magazines ect.
Thus I feel it is important for us to set a bases to what makes up a factory correct car and to me that is the way for the Talladega’s and Spoiler II’s left the factory !
Now as to your question how do I feel about the wheel wraps, decals ect. well they were shipped from the factory with each Spoiler or II Dan or Cale car…thus they should have been put on..if a dealer did not install them it is not correct if sold not installed as it was the dealers duty to install these parts….
Now as to your comments that I question your Spoiler II . I just wanted to know if you had a copy of the build sheet and if it was marked Heater Delete or not for my own interest and also I have been looking over Spoiler II build sheets I have and Marti reports on the Spoiler II’s and Richard on the copy of the Marti report you sent me on 9H15M5654427 I fail to see it stating any place it is one of two heater delete Spoiler II’s ? and this was also pointed out to me by others !
Now as to a 428 C.J being installed in a Spoiler II at a dealership being correct…No it would not be correct as to factory built…and to back that up and few years ago a Mustang Twister came up on the block at Barrett-Jackson and It was stated that it was built by a Ford dealership with a blower and tubs and sold new that way….then they went on to say “This is not reported on the Marti Report !!! why because it was not built at the factory that way !!! Yes I can document a car as to correctness and how it was built as to Fords and many others using vin tags and data plates and a vast library of information…so when I get questioned about a car I try and get the correct information out as to how that car left the factory because that is what is correct.. and when some one uses information I have given and makes it look like it is their work or add’s un-documented here say to it and its history I am going to question them as to just what they know I am not impressed yet !
Rick, I have no issues with your knowledge about the cars and I greatly appreciate your support and participation on our web site. It has been of great benefit to many of our Members. However, I am upset that you mention the Marti report I provided you does not state that the car is one of 2 Spoiler IIs with heater delete. You go on to mention that “this was pointed out by others!” I am very surprised that you and others missed the information. If you look more closely at the Marti Report for 9H15M565427 you will see that under the section Kevin Marti lists as: “Your vehicle was ordered with the following options:” “Delete heater” is listed. Note that he lists this as an “Option”.
If this is not the information you are seeking then I refer you to my letter dated June 22, 2005 from Kevin Marti which in part says: “There were 2 Cyclone Spoiler IIs that had the heater deleted, one each of a Dan Gurney Special and a Cale Yarborough Special.”
The Kevin Marti information is covered by a Copyright and I did not publish these documents with the original article. However, since there seems to be people out there that question the validity of my information I have added these two documents to the original article.
You can reach this page by simply using the site’s search box and search for Not all Spoiler IIs are the Same!”
and Richard on the copy of the Marti report you sent me on 9H15M5654427 I fail to see it stating any place it is one of two heater delete Spoiler II’s ? and this was also pointed out to me by others ! ….. This is what I said above….if you have a 2nd. letter or the build sheet you should post it….it ad’s more credit to your car…the Marti report states only Delete Heater ! and not any thing about 2
So now the letter will add more to your story.
Point is we try and tell people the truth and they just want to dis-credit the work I or this site put’s out for their use in a restoration, or the buying of one of these cars..than they find out I or the information on this site is correct so now they come up with more NEW information that any one who has been in it as long as I have or longer knows it is not true. Thus in closing any answer I give or have given, as to what or how a car should be restored will be based on “How it came out of the factory ” and not dealership options or 2nd.day add on’s .
Trust me I love Cragers on a T or old ET’s but they are not factory correct. One more thing on the Marti report of your Spoiler II we are talking about Note : as you pointed out Options the following : “Cyclone Spoiler II Package ”
Package being the key word !!